The Nin Online community sucks for lowbies

[Gaara1024]

This game could be advertised on tv during the super bowl and still would not have player retention because of the community. The lowbie experience is a toxic and harsh one. You cannot make it from your village to pick up the keys for the level 20 arc without dying in safe zones is stupid! You have toxic players that will kill lowbies and tell them, "Fck you, sand is toxic and killed me, so I killed you." That is despicable. I was running around in the DZ last night looking for bounties. I watched the leaf jump out (in a safe zone) with six people to kill two level 23s... One person was like, "wow, that was toxic." The rest just laughed. I messaged them, and it was the 2nd time they were trying to get to the mission objective through leaf's territory. I had someone following me from the mist all around the mist, harassing me, and even waiting there after logging out and back in. Finally killed him and asked wtf is wrong with him. This is not to say you cannot kill people in DZ or WZ but limit it on the lowbies. Get your kill, but do not farm them. Also, stop the whole if one leaf ninja dies, the entire village goes after them... The point is, the game has come leaps and bounds from where it was last year when I started. No matter what Rory does, this game will fail because of a toxic community that cannot leave people alone. 

The 2nd part of this is the new user experience regarding quest and map layouts. The wiki and forums are exceptional. I would like to see links for them put in-game under a help tab. That would help newbies figure out where to go and what to do. For example, a few days ago, I had a leaf village ninja in the sand village asking to buy kills. I still needed a kill, so I figured we could trade. We meet by the graveyard, and he starts attacking because he thinks the kills could be anywhere. Then after his kill, he goes hurry up and kill me. I then had to explain to him that killing on BI would not work either. I want missions like this to have a better description or add this to the genin test when they talk about the DZ and WZ. 

I would like to hear everyone's feedback on this. I think community engagement is the only way to make this game thrive and stand the test of time. 

[Atrane]

[Elevenswords]

No cap if this is what you define as toxic you should not be playing this game.

This game is very unforgiving in the sense u can pvp anywhere. If ur not into full pvp games then just stop playing cause you wont have fun this game is all around the pvp and the competition and theres missions that actively incentivize people to go out and kill lowbies to complete the missions. 

Its also very common to just defend your own village territory thats why u get killed on sight by enemy ninjas. Clearly this game isnt for you i wish you the best but forum posts like this wont change much.

Regarding the lack of clarity on were u can read up on guides etc i dont think anyone disagrees with you on that. The game does need some polishing on regards of making it easier for new players to learn certain terms or just how the basics work.

 

[Gaara1024]

3 minutes ago, Elevenswords said:

No cap if this is what you define as toxic you should not be playing this game.

This game is very unforgiving in the sense u can pvp anywhere. If ur not into full pvp games then just stop playing cause you wont have fun this game is all around the pvp and the competition and theres missions that actively incentivize people to go out and kill lowbies to complete the missions. 

Its also very common to just defend your own village territory thats why u get killed on sight by enemy ninjas. Clearly this game isnt for you i wish you the best but forum posts like this wont change much.

Regarding the lack of clarity on were u can read up on guides etc i dont think anyone disagrees with you on that. The game does need some polishing on regards of making it easier for new players to learn certain terms or just how the basics work.

 

I don't mind if you are defending your village or you have a mission. The problem is how they act after they one shot the lowbie. This happens in every village (except mist they have 3 active players).

[Elevenswords]

this is just plain old trash talk. it happens in literally every mmo with a semi competitive scene. 

If u cant handle trash talk u should not be playing hardcore pvp games like nin .

[Gaara1024]

your right, me telling someone "I tried giving you the kill" them responding back with "STFU" 

 

my bad I thought that was toxic. Also i hate to tell you this but classifying nin as "Hardcore PVP game" is a silly notion.  

[Elevenswords]

If u think nin isnt hardcore pvp then your very mistaken.

Literally 99% of the content is pvp based , the updats most of the community want more are balance updates , the whole point of leveling is so u can defend yourself in pvp and participate in tournaments and try to join official orgs to prove your power.

Literally the entire community thrives around pvp, village raids , hunts , pvp events, scrims , official org scrims, daily automated  pvp tournaments .

Most of the official orgs only accept good pvp players exactly because there is a sense of pvp competition between villages.

Theres literally an entire village were the political system is all based around pvp .

I believe you are mistaken if you think this isnt hardcore pvp.

[Gaara1024]

1 minute ago, Elevenswords said:

If u think nin isnt hardcore pvp then your very mistaken.

Literally 99% of the content is pvp based , the updats most of the community want more are balance updates , the whole point of leveling is so u can defend yourself in pvp and participate in tournaments and try to join official orgs to prove your power.

Literally the entire community thrives around pvp, village raids , hunts , pvp events, scrims , official org scrims, daily automated  pvp tournaments .

Most of the official orgs only accept good pvp players exactly because there is a sense of pvp competition between villages.

Theres literally an entire village were the political system is all based around pvp .

I believe you are mistaken if you think this isnt hardcore pvp.

I'm not saying the game is pvp focused, but to say a 2d game is hardcord is silly. That is like calling Maplestory hardcore.

[Anduril]

49 minutes ago, Elevenswords said:

If u think nin isnt hardcore pvp then your very mistaken.

Literally 99% of the content is pvp based , the updats most of the community want more are balance updates , the whole point of leveling is so u can defend yourself in pvp and participate in tournaments and try to join official orgs to prove your power.

Literally the entire community thrives around pvp, village raids , hunts , pvp events, scrims , official org scrims, daily automated  pvp tournaments .

Most of the official orgs only accept good pvp players exactly because there is a sense of pvp competition between villages.

Theres literally an entire village were the political system is all based around pvp .

I believe you are mistaken if you think this isnt hardcore pvp.

My question is as a new player do I have to just deal with getting killed over and over again as I try to get to my objective? I don't have a problem with someone killing me in their territory or whatever but there could be a more helpful beginner experience to keep people coming back. 

[Elevenswords]

Yes unfortunatly this game is entirely open world pvp there isnt a single area were u cant be killed outside of hospitals.

For most people thats fun but theres also more casual gamers like yourself who dont like it and maybe this game isnt for you cause u can be killed literally anywhere.

10 minutes ago, Anduril said:

My question is as a new player do I have to just deal with getting killed over and over again as I try to get to my objective? I don't have a problem with someone killing me in their territory or whatever but there could be a more helpful beginner experience to keep people coming back. 

 

Like just so you understand the community loves this aspect so much theres alot of posts about removing safe zones to make kills count anywhere.

This isnt some small post , its tons of posts like this and posts with alot of likes and views exactly because of the pvp aspect of the game that promotes pvp everywhere.

i dont htink its gonna get any easier for casual players.

[Anduril]

54 minutes ago, Elevenswords said:

Yes unfortunatly this game is entirely open world pvp there isnt a single area were u cant be killed outside of hospitals.

For most people thats fun but theres also more casual gamers like yourself who dont like it and maybe this game isnt for you cause u can be killed literally anywhere.

 

Like just so you understand the community loves this aspect so much theres alot of posts about removing safe zones to make kills count anywhere.

This isnt some small post , its tons of posts like this and posts with alot of likes and views exactly because of the pvp aspect of the game that promotes pvp everywhere.

i dont htink its gonna get any easier for casual players.

See I feel like by dismissing me as a casual gamer you're ignoring the question. I understand the joy of pvp, it's why I'm interested in the game. What you're saying is that everyone enjoys playing as a low level and just getting wrecked by 50+ level players? That's not exactly what I'd consider pvp. A level 20 is no more of a threat to level 50 than any of the npc enemies roaming around (probably less than a threat in some cases). What's more likely is that you are saying that people enjoy the ease in which you can kill such low level players and they want it to be even easier and convenient by removing safe zones. I honestly I don't have a problem as is. I'm grinding away and I'm level 23. If I day by not being safe or I'm in the wrong place at the wrong time so be it. But don't pretend that a group jumping some low level player is some sort of hardcore pvp. There's nothing hardcore about something that doesn't take much skill.

[Lord Northwind]

9 hours ago, Gaara1024 said:

This game could be advertised on tv during the super bowl and still would not have player retention because of the community. The lowbie experience is a toxic and harsh one. You cannot make it from your village to pick up the keys for the level 20 arc without dying in safe zones is stupid! You have toxic players that will kill lowbies and tell them, "Fck you, sand is toxic and killed me, so I killed you." That is despicable. I was running around in the DZ last night looking for bounties. I watched the leaf jump out (in a safe zone) with six people to kill two level 23s... One person was like, "wow, that was toxic." The rest just laughed. I messaged them, and it was the 2nd time they were trying to get to the mission objective through leaf's territory. I had someone following me from the mist all around the mist, harassing me, and even waiting there after logging out and back in. Finally killed him and asked wtf is wrong with him. This is not to say you cannot kill people in DZ or WZ but limit it on the lowbies. Get your kill, but do not farm them. Also, stop the whole if one leaf ninja dies, the entire village goes after them... The point is, the game has come leaps and bounds from where it was last year when I started. No matter what Rory does, this game will fail because of a toxic community that cannot leave people alone. 

The 2nd part of this is the new user experience regarding quest and map layouts. The wiki and forums are exceptional. I would like to see links for them put in-game under a help tab. That would help newbies figure out where to go and what to do. For example, a few days ago, I had a leaf village ninja in the sand village asking to buy kills. I still needed a kill, so I figured we could trade. We meet by the graveyard, and he starts attacking because he thinks the kills could be anywhere. Then after his kill, he goes hurry up and kill me. I then had to explain to him that killing on BI would not work either. I want missions like this to have a better description or add this to the genin test when they talk about the DZ and WZ. 

I would like to hear everyone's feedback on this. I think community engagement is the only way to make this game thrive and stand the test of time. 

the reason why the game doest have +300 player is because the community is and always was toxic.

[Imhotep]

Bit of a vicious cycle, I was nice when I started and didn't mind dying in a PvP game but after the 5th time some clown kills you and types 'L' you start waiting on the day you can return the favor. 

Leaf jumping out with 6 50+ every time for a lowbie is part of it, Sand not letting literally any lowbie through GD without tax or dying is another (Mist dead so who cares).

On the other hand, it forces you to learn the game. As a lowbie I learned how to sneak through villages, how to wait at the top of spiders as the response team of 6 leafies came hunting for me then slip by, I learned shortcuts through Mist and flicker points. By the time I was 50 I felt like I learned a lot more about the game than in other MMOs I've played. Besides that I'm not sure what can be done. Telling people don't be toxic isn't going to undo 9 years of player killing and rivalry.

I agree with lowering mission frustration. They could be better explained. Bad missions should have exp rewards buffed or mission objectives altered. Especially as a fresh lowbie the ONLY thing you do is get killed, grind mobs and do dailies. Grinding mobs has never been fun, getting killed isn't great so at least dailies should feel good.

A lot of new players burn out just getting to 20, despite it being relatively easy these days, because the logical gameplay is to grind and take dailies (which are not worth taking) and nothing else is well described. I'd have to make a lowbie helper account just to help every new player get to 20 in a reasonable time frame. I don't see the problem in telling lowbies there's missions for their level in Takumi, and giving them a map that actually takes them there. The odds are they get killed on their way anyway; that should be the challenge, not the opaqueness of missions in the game.

 

[Hageshi]

For lowbies? This game is filled with the type of toxic people and tryhards that can break a grown art man's mental health. This is the "hardcore pvp" game mechanic. Old players quit because more and more tryhards fill the game with the toxic mindset, player retention is at all-time low because the game is focused on PvP right now. 

[Yugure]

8 hours ago, Hageshi said:

For lowbies? This game is filled with the type of toxic people and tryhards that can break a grown art man's mental health. This is the "hardcore pvp" game mechanic. Old players quit because more and more tryhards fill the game with the toxic mindset, player retention is at all-time low because the game is focused on PvP right now. 

PvP doesn't do that. PvP is fine. Going out and hunting people and killing people in the danger zones especially solo is a fine reward when you win, especially when you kill someone you dislike. I, a veteran player have temporarily quit because Rory was issuing out so many updates I was tired of not being able to utilize the fast log in he gave us, (my download speed is garbage) and yes also because of Nin's very toxic community. I've asked around to some other old players and we all came upon an agreement that we would be more than happy to return to Nin if the toxicity ceased. 

It will never happen. Toxicity will never die in this game or in any major MMORPG, hell I got my router DDoS'd because I told some guy to stfu on Battlefront 2 after he was raging and he cost us the match because he didn't want to cooperate as a team. You can only control the toxicity and tear it down to a minimum. Even on major MMORPG's, like Star Wars: The Old Republic the admins don't even make a presence because if you utilize their report system and their support tickets, they will easily take care of the situation as fast and as soon as they can, but that game has been around since 2010 and the point is that people are still toxic to each other. 

Understand that realistically we are in a time of global pandemic, panic and almost everyone is considered mentally unstable and very stressed. The minority are medicated, the majority (a huge majority play this game) don't even realize that by being toxic,, discriminatory or disrespectful they are indirectly admitting to being mentally ill and are not medicated.

Sometimes, it's enough for someone to just say "Shut up trash" to actually piss somebody off. The argument that words don't hurt is bullshit. Practice empathy for people. I firmly believe that @Ueda should hire admins specifically for handling toxic reports and should crack down on the toxicity that the players are so willing to give.

Let's not forget that most arguments go toward somebody's real life status because players on this game can't handle losing in a PvP 1v1 for some reason, even though skill isn't the only factor (Ping and FPS can still improve someone's Nin performance).  I've had players flat out tell me that they hope my mom died soon, that they hoped I get cancer, I've been told to kill myself countless times, I've been jumped for hours in game, I've been followed to other game's, I've had account passwords hacked and more (it sucks because I'll never get those accounts back, and that's another reason I refuse to play Nin Online; until Rory figures out how to increase security I refuse to play), but you really don't see me complaining about it, especially because this community is so hellbent on painting me as a racist homophobe despite the fact I'm sexually attracted to both sexes. 

This community picks and chooses the days when it can handle dark humor or when they want to paint you as the bad guy, but God Forbid you throw their energy back at them. They will make you the villain. The only way you can combat against this is to report them to the proper authorities (i.e FBI handles Cyber Crimes // DDoSing and Doxing are imprisonable for up to 15 years), or the Nin Online Staff Team. 

[Seifer]

On 6/28/2022 at 9:48 AM, Gaara1024 said:

The lowbie experience is a toxic and harsh one.

On 6/29/2022 at 3:20 AM, Imhotep said:

Sand not letting literally any lowbie through GD without tax or dying is another

On 6/29/2022 at 3:20 AM, Imhotep said:

Leaf jumping out with 6 50+ every time for a lowbie is part of it

I have always said this, but lower levels should have missions around the village and the more they progress the further the missions will take them towards another faction's village. A simple solution to this is a main story quest-line for each village, but regular dailies that take place using these sectioned parameters per level can work too.

Another thing is having multiple entry points into a village. Yes, a village may have one exit/entrance however enemies will never use this when invading or infiltrating the enemy base. They may 1) blow a hole in the wall, 2) dig a tunnel underneath, 3) fly over into the village, 4) rock climb into the village, 5) sneak through a caravan. The game should reflect this realism when it comes to the games missions so they cannot ever be  in-completable through camping.

People are bored and will jump at the opportunity to attack anything they see. When others are able to play the game to attack something, no one wants to sit there doing nothing. So, my point is again -- let's not focus on discouraging players from playing the game, but let's make better mechanics and maps that gets lowbies a chance to complete their missions.

On 6/28/2022 at 9:48 AM, Gaara1024 said:

I want missions like this to have a better description or add this to the genin test when they talk about the DZ and WZ. 

I agree with this. I am not trying to make excuses for Rory, however it is true that everything has been tweaked a lot making descriptions hard to keep up to date. I think it wouldn't hurt if Rory added on a few people onto his team purely for descriptions, dialogue and lore purposes. This could help with missions, NPC's and bring a dutiful purpose to those playing.

[ZODX]

On 6/29/2022 at 3:35 AM, Northwind said:

the reason why the game doest have +300 player is because the community is and always was toxic.

it's true i agree with you 

[Imhotep]

On 7/4/2022 at 3:26 AM, Seifer said:

A simple solution to this is a main story quest-line for each village, but regular dailies that take place using these sectioned parameters per level can work too.

@UedaMost people coming from an MMO background naturally expect this (though I understand the limitations historically). It's an extension of the village missions that give you one of the starter jutsu for free. A string of village exclusive missions from the NPCs around the village as the primary driver for leveling; with grinding, dailies (which are usually grinding missions) and RP missions coming in between level requirement intervals. Quest Arcs coming online as they usually do and dailies finally taking over as the primary leveling mechanism at around 28-30, just before Toad Arc.

By then the player is fully equipped for a lowbie, and in groups of 3-4 stand a chance in DZs. Players might not even get Genin until they complete the village help quests, earning their title by helping the village. Exp rates can be nerfed to account for the new options but the variety alone will help retention.

Leveling right now is easier than ever but it requires already having knowledge, help and a willingness to switch off your brain and grind 5-10 levels at a time (and also pop blessings). Players doing this can hit 35+ in 2 days (even 1 if they full send). If you pace the proposed quests, dailies and RP to get you to 30 in 3 days of reasonable playing hours I think that's a much more sane alternative that doesn't really hurt the game.

From there, the harass of DZ dailies can begin.

[Yugure]

I remember the day I first joined Sand when @TetsuHawk was Kazekage. My name was Red Shadow, and I had reset from Leaf Village because of how weirdly toxic they were. The second I said that, I reset from Leaf at level 14 and I really was new, all hell broke loose. I was cursed at, harassed, picked on, for being an "alt." Thus, started the alt wars where I had gotten many people exiled from Sand for that exact same reason. 


This community makes the effort to be as toxic as possible to you while calling you the bad guy, and that in itself makes almost everyone here a hypocrite. 

[RealMadrid]

Its simple, with this system of PvP matters. People that joins will play the game like 20-30 minutes and leave cause they don't enjoy getting killed everytime and wait BI.