The chakra scalpel issue

[Omnisia]

So chakra scalpel has been an issue for years now because of the combo with tai and medic.

Even now it seems chakra scalpel is getting a change every month and ends up nerfed every 2 or 3 patches.

I am mainly wondering why the only offense chakra medic jutsu is balanced around a mastery combo (or around tai at all).

Personnaly I feel like there are many solutions to this.

Examples:
-Make base dmg very low (or 0) and make the jutsu chk scaling higher.
-Make it so chakra scalpel is like a completely seperate weapon that would not add dmg to melees.
(would not add to agi basic atk dmg but insted be its own dmg)

I feel like both solutions or any similar minded one would insanely reduce the problem with the mastery combo and would allow chakra scalpel to be what it should be (a chk oriented offensive option).

Just mainly want to read some discussion around the jutsu.
If you are just here to cry please don't bother commenting. 

Btw, instant cast felt pretty good, now that it has a cast time again it feels weird has a chk med that if its canceled you have to spend an entire 60 seconds only using senbons. Now that cast time is reverted couldn't we get cd reverted back to 40-50 seconds instead of 60 seconds.

[Gildarts]

@Omnisia this the thing about Nin balance...they always nerf/buff from what i see according to how it plays with other masteries and not the mastery alone. These kinds of changes be nerfing 1 mastery players or players that want to play pure and IMO it shouldn't be that way.

The best suggestion is to have chakra scalpels not work with blood tonfas, tonfas, demon claws, as well as making the base damage very to low to non existent for tai meds

[Omnisia]

8 minutes ago, JunPachi said:

These kinds of changes be nerfing 1 mastery players or players that want to play pure and IMO it shouldn't be that way.

Definitly agree that one combo should not dictate the balancing for an entire mastery.

Althought the combos will surely vary in strength, I believe any combo should be playable and valued.

8 minutes ago, JunPachi said:

The best suggestion is to have chakra scalpels not work with blood tonfas, tonfas, demon claws, as well as making the base damage very to low to non existent for tai meds

It is also probably the easiest to implement with how the game works at the moment.
Chakra scalpel should be mainly used by higher chakra builds and spreading points should make it less potent in my opinion.

[Rice Hammer]

Any of these changes would be great, 175 Chakra gives 59 damage right now which feels pretty low given the huge stat investment

[Omnisia]

I am certain if you ask someone why the cast time was reverted, they would come up with how it being cancelable when you face a tai/med is important.

But it being cancelable makes pure chk med really bad for any kind of PvP unless they just standing around throwing heals on CD or get lucky that the cast isnt canceled. Once again, Mastery being balanced around 1 strong combo and nothing being done to fix this is a big issue.

I am sure even tai caught nerfs because of that jutsu combination. Seperating the masteries would benefit every mastery in the end.

[Omnisia]

Would love more people's point of view on the subject.
I really want this jutsu to be fixed, not just be a tai sidebuff that is part of another mastery.

[Cosbo]

11 hours ago, Omnisia said:

Would love more people's point of view on the subject.
I really want this jutsu to be fixed, not just be a tai sidebuff that is part of another mastery.

bumping

[Omnisia]

So after some quick research in the pits of hell (nin gen)

I have my answer to the chakra scalpel isntant cast revert
Here is what the balancing is basing its decisions on and why its dumb.

11 is right here, instant scalpels were probably intended as a way to make solo chakra med not have to run around aimlessly for 60 seconds if they got scalpels canceled, but ended up being too much of a buff to tai. so insted of just making scalpels worst for tai we'll revert it to make it worst for meds. (a med jutsu btw)

 

Solo chakra meds do need to be able to fight, else no one would ever play them.
The problem with the buff is that it also buffs tai which is why I'm advocating to seperate the jutsu from tai's toolkit. 
(as it is a med jutsu and not a tai jutsu)

So if you have anything to learn from this is that you can sway balance changes by complaining on nin gen.

 

These msgs keep me hopeful that scalpel will get fix when we arrive at the tai patch.
Still hoping for scalpels to be part of the chk med identity and not a buff on top for tai but I'd take stacking with weapons being gone and a base dmg nerf with scaling buff. 

Will keep the thread alive until I see the day chakra scalpel is fixed.

[Omnisia]

@Raitou
My proposed changes for chakra scalpel:

-Scalpel does not stack with agi basic attack damage and cannot be used with tai weapons.
(I know that this is not currently feasable with your current tools, but this is what is needed to balance the jutsu...)

-Chakra scalpel goes back to instant cast with 1 sec self stun.

-Base damage changed to 0 at all ranks
-Scaling changed to 0.4 per chakra point

Effect on Basic attack damage (Old damage calculated with 5 agi AKA 3 base dmg)
Chakra Stat - New damage (Old damage)

40 - 16 (18)

60 - 24 (24)

80 - 32 (30)

100 -  40 (36)

120 - 48 (42)

140 - 56 (48)

160 - 64 (54)

180 - 72 (60)

Note that any build with more than 130 chakra either has lower hp than average or is missing multiple second mastery jutsus.    

 

Effect on Basic attack damage for some popular tai/med builds
IF USING SCALPELS
Stats - New damage (Old damage) 

35 agi, 130 chk - 52 (53)

70 agi, 110 chk - 44 (57)

100 agi, 80 chk - 32 (57)

110 agi, 80 chk - 32 (60)

Note here that the current dmg is GOING UP with higher agi build while also getting cast time reductions AND insane attack speed!

 

Hope these numbers, even if they dont convince you on the my suggestion, can show how dumb the current jutsu is...
High agi tais get way too much out of the jutsu while having insane agi benefits.