End-game Sword Rebalance

[Black Rain]

This post was made in collaboration with @Yamikami

The suggestion is to rebalance end-game land of iron swords because they are currently too powerful, and provide a level of power-creep that is IMO too high.

Previously, the Bone sword was the highest DPS sword in the game, so I will be using this sword as a comparison to analyse and put into numbers just how much the difference in DPS is between this and the new swords, leading them to be much stronger than what I would consider reasonable.

I will be using Bone Sword as a baseline for comparison to other swords since I think that it's a pretty well balanced high STR weapon. Here is a key to show you what sword is being mentioned when numbers are used:

Bonesword Yamazaru Jakuma

Bone Sword ( 110 STR, 36 base damage, 0.8 sec speed, health regen, legendary, lvl 50)

Yamazaru (120 STR, 55 base damage, 0.8 sec speed, +3 fortitude, health regen, legendary, lvl 59)

Melee @120 str: 72 vs 91
Kunai @120 str:  60 vs 70
Adjusted for Damage Per Second:
Melee: 90 vs 114
Kunai: 30 vs 35
Total: 120 vs 149

This is a 24.2% DPS increase. To put perspective on just how much of a difference this is, +5 points (for gaining a full level) invested into strength gives you a ~1.9% DPS increase. This is the equivalent of 64 str points difference (the equivalent of almost 13 levels). 

Jakuma (100 STR 40 CHA, 55 base damage, 0.8 sec speed, +3 chakra, chakra regen, legendary, lvl 59)

Melee @100 str: 66 vs 85
Kunai @100 str:  55 vs 64
Adjusted for Damage Per Second:
Melee: 82.5 vs 106.25
Kunai: 27.5 vs 32
Total: 110 vs 138.25

This is a 25.7% DPS increase. You can see this sword offers a similar level of power as yamazaru, with the equivalent of 67.6 str points difference (equivalent of 13.5 levels worth of points).

Suggested change
Obviously, fights are not people standing still hitting every melee on cooldown, but these calculations offer an indication of just how strong these swords really are. The swords offer an unparalleled DPS increase which is not matched even remotely closely by any other upgrade in the game.
The minimum viable change in my opinion would be to reduce the attack speed of these swords to 1.2 seconds per swing from 0.8 seconds. This would reduce the monstrously high DPS increase the swords offer and still provide a great upgrade while keeping the integrity of the weapon as an end-game sword.
 

[Clayman]

It's weird that swords have this kind of a difference in power. I think they should be balanced like the Fan weapons where the Blood Iron Fan isn't a monsterous upgrade over the Crystal Fan but it's still stronger and worth having.

[SDZ]

amazing post, appreciate the number calculation and totally agree.

[Indra]

i see this post as a overall buff and not a rebalance.

[Black Rain]

23 minutes ago, Indra said:

i see this post as a overall buff and not a rebalance.

Can you explain how reducing a swords attack speed is a buff?

[Exodia]

Considering there's only 1 in the game after 1 year and 3 months of LOI being added to the game and being nerfed already I think the sword should be as strong as it is right now. Call me biased all you want but pure wm RELIES on it's weapon, it has been reduced to a 1v1 melee pressing mastery, if end game swords (Which are next to impossible to farm rn) are being nerfed when there are waaay bigger issues in the game right now then I don't know what to say.

Fan auto on lvl 20 weapon = Free combo for elementals, FREE.
Earth being overly broken rn > 1 land of iron sword in the game that I use once a week.

I understand your point about it being a power creep and appreciate that you've tried to balance the weapon instead of just nerf, but this change will literally not even be noticed because there is only 1Yamazaru in the game and only affects 1v1 scenarios. 

Nerfing said swords isn't going to change the fact that pure wm is just a melee mastery and people will always complain about THAT being broken, so maybe look to change the class instead of nerfing swords that take 1 year + to drop and over 5000 hours to farm an impossible boss. 

[Grimmjow]

2 hours ago, Exodia said:

Considering there's only 1 in the game after 1 year and 3 months of LOI being added to the game and being nerfed already I think the sword should be as strong as it is right now. Call me biased all you want but pure wm RELIES on it's weapon, it has been reduced to a 1v1 melee pressing mastery, if end game swords (Which are next to impossible to farm rn) are being nerfed when there are waaay bigger issues in the game right now then I don't know what to say.

Fan auto on lvl 20 weapon = Free combo for elementals, FREE.
Earth being overly broken rn > 1 land of iron sword in the game that I use once a week.

I understand your point about it being a power creep and appreciate that you've tried to balance the weapon instead of just nerf, but this change will literally not even be noticed because there is only 1Yamazaru in the game and only affects 1v1 scenarios. 

Nerfing said swords isn't going to change the fact that pure wm is just a melee mastery and people will always complain about THAT being broken, so maybe look to change the class instead of nerfing swords that take 1 year + to drop and over 5000 hours to farm an impossible boss. 

I agree with ainz on this take the problem with str wm is it’s been relegated to being reliant on its melee it used to be a mix of both jutsu and z but with recent nerfs on all jutsus str wm has only one cancel if they play pure(and it’s a walk cast). That sword shouldn’t be changed for a while. 

[Seifer]

Majority of people -> Never touched or fought against these swords so can't comment on them.

I am sure they need re-balancing though like all the other swords.

5k sword -> slow, expensive, low damage, no effects

Twin Blades -> 50% kb chance

10k sword -> slow, expensive, low damage, no effects

Muramasa -> too slow

Bat -> lv 20 with 70 str req

etc etc

All levels, requirements, speed and base damage are simply messed up.

Level 60 swords doing 100 dmg looks broken at face value right now, not looking at speed. But, my point is what it was in the other post; I hope dev's just sit down and fix all the swords at once so they are scaled in proportion to one another until they reach a level where swords are tiered horizontally.

Ex: Lv 20 + 20 base, Lv 30 + 30 base, Lv 40 + 40 base + 1 int, Lv 40 + 40 base + 1 chak, Lv 40 + 40 base + 1 fort

[Enver]

@Ueda

[Raitou]

would be interesting to see the 2 rare swords compared to an equally rare demon claws at 110 agi 

[Exodia]

4 hours ago, Raitou said:

would be interesting to see the 2 rare swords compared to an equally rare demon claws at 110 agi 

I wouldn't put demon claws on the same tier as Yamazaru or Jakuma as Demon claws is obtained from the lvl 40 arc. Much easier to farm and reach, the 2 swords are literally the end game boss which is impossible to kill. No comparison.