Hidden mastery weapons

[Clayman]

Hidden mastery weapons need to get nerfed. The fact that you can get a melee with CC for only 20 STR is silly and needs to be taken off the meta.

What should be done:

• 20 STR Fans - remove the knockback
• 20 STR Pipe - remove the snare
• A new pipe should be added to the basic Pipe shop. It would require you to be lvl 25 and have 50 STR. This pipe would snare the opponent for 1.2 seconds.

For people who are leveling this will not make a big difference, Fans attack with projectiles from distance and the Pipe places traps so even without the CC you can still level just fine. 

[Tatara]

> Topic created to nerf tools.

> Someone brings up to create more tools.

How does this happen?

Also about the non-elementals pummeling everything in their path. Maybe you should finally think about scalings and how some weapons works with buffs? 

But maybe not.

 

[Seifer]

8 hours ago, Imhotep said:

And yes it is an element nerf you're suggesting, because only elementals use the base tools. 

It would only be an elemental nerf if only and all elemental users could use it. Since Leaf has nothing and uses elemental masteries without it, it should not be considered as such. Hidden weapons are just busted weapons that give an unfair advantage to a whole village and not to the whole group of elementals. They should be mastery locked or have their weapon effects removed. It is unfair for a whole village to use a basic to stop charged attacks while another cannot. I.e. someone (esp a Leafie) uses LC, but it is useless because someone just throws and ez bubble/fan knockback on them.

[Lumy]

Why would Leaf get a weapon? You guys are asking this as if other villages gets a weapon just for fun. 
 

Sand and Mist got hidden weapons because they are needed to use jutsus from their respective hidden mastery. You can’t just give a leaf exclusive weapon for fun. 
 

If anything, adding another 20str weapon with CC that’s village exclusive will make it worst.
 

 

Seeing int medics with weapons that are not related to their mastery is tickling and against the balance.

[Maho]

The game is the way it is because you all keep nerfing and buffing stuff. Why not choose something and get good at it for once and stop complaining everytime someone beats you so the game progress in other areas? We still don’t have advanced masteries because you all are stuck on making your mastery better than the next person. We could’ve had so much by now..

 

It takes more than button mashing to beat someone.. when you figure that out we can get on with actually progressing. 
 

PS: Hate to break it to some of you but not everyone knows how to use a mastery perfectly. I don’t care how much of a main they are, If you can’t compete then don’t choose a mastery you know you’re poor at using. Their are two met masteries to choose from for combining and customizing your kit.

Get better or Reset to something that suits your play style. These topics are causing traffic to the games overall progress..

[Exodia]

Do it!

[Enver]

Just now, Yamikami said:

Hidden mastery weapons need to get nerfed. The fact that you can get a melee with CC for only 20 STR is silly and needs to be taken off the meta.

What should be done:

• 20 STR Fans - remove the knockback
• 20 STR Pipe - remove the snare
• A new pipe should be added to the basic Pipe shop. It would require you to be lvl 25 and have 50 STR. This pipe would snare the opponent for 1.5 seconds.

For people who are leveling this will not make a big difference, Fans attack with projectiles from distance and the Pipe places traps so even without the CC you can still level just fine. 

So you complain about WM being overpowered and the next day u want Elements to be nerfed?

[Seifer]

Hidden mastery weapons are not at all elements. Lolll

 

[Atrane]

There's definitely 2 paths that can be taken, nerfing like this post suggests and nerfing elements ability to compete with melee masteries. The other option is presenting a weapon to leaf that can be used similarly to bring elements up to par with the rest of the game. Honestly both are fine imo but WM doesnt seem like its going to be changed any time soon, so giving leaf a cc weapon is probably the best chance.

[Ryuza]

Well, I never tried fan but, the pipe is definately broken as helll you could easily grind bears at lv 10, which also gives xp. I Tested it with an alt of mine and as long as they dont have a flicker+hit at the same time move, they are easily farmed. I even managed to play around with the Kuraken, if u only move diagonally u wont get hit and if u only focus on the Pipe's auto attack, you could even defeat at least a tentacle at lv 10 (just takes time). What i could'nt confirm is if even a tentacle gives xp.

So yeah, the pipe does need a nerf.

[Imhotep]

Give Leaf a CC tool so they can compete, but the other villages don't need their element users nerfed even further. And yes it is an element nerf you're suggesting, because only elementals use the base tools. 

Rework WM and Poison scalpel, then we can talk about removing instant-cc (which by itself is not a bad idea). Man's just suggesting nerfs left and right without considering where it leaves the meta.

[Clayman]

1 hour ago, Imhotep said:

Give Leaf a CC tool so they can compete, but the other villages don't need their element users nerfed even further. And yes it is an element nerf you're suggesting, because only elementals use the base tools. 

Rework WM and Poison scalpel, then we can talk about removing instant-cc (which by itself is not a bad idea). Man's just suggesting nerfs left and right without considering where it leaves the meta.

This would just further imbalance the game. There is no reason for elementals to be CCing on their melee. Even Adamantine Staff which is lvl 59 legendary elemental weapon does not have CC of any kind, so why would lvl 10 weapons that were not even made for elementals have CC. 

Hidden mastery weapons are not elementals. They are abused by elementals, but there are a lot of element users that don't even use them. These weapons should have never been used by them in the fist place. Saying that removing instant CC from melee is a bad thing just cause elementals get beat by masteries that are meant for 1v1 is just silly. I have seen plenty of players with no weapon do just fine against them. 

[Imhotep]

They are already getting beat by 1v1 masteries. I invite you to look at any of the recent 1v1 events. The top WMs (and Tais if they bothered to participate) wipe the floor with any elements. Pipe, Fan or otherwise. It extends to 2v2s, 3v3s and so on. By the time you get to the point where elements are objectively better, we're talking about larger group/team fights. Then we wonder why no one leaves the SZ without a group.

All things being equal, WM/Tai should come out ahead of the others. But just because a class has the edge in 1v1s doesn't mean it should be nearly impossible to beat. To add to that, the gap is only widening with every new super-charged weapon that drops. It's not like elements are simultaneously getting better at team fights either; one playstyle is surging ahead of the others.

I agree instant cast CC has an excessive impact on the PvP meta, but you're looking at this in a vacuum. One change can't come before the other without making existing imbalances even worse. We can't even argue that Advanced will roll up to save the day anymore so if and until WM/Tai/Med get a rework, elementals don't need to have even fewer options. Better to give Leaf something of their own.

[Nagao Hideki]

6 hours ago, Lumy said:

Why would Leaf get a weapon? You guys are asking this as if other villages gets a weapon just for fun. 
 

Sand and Mist got hidden weapons because they are needed to use jutsus from their respective hidden mastery. You can’t just give a leaf exclusive weapon for fun. 
 

If anything, adding another 20str weapon with CC that’s village exclusive will make it worst.
 

 

Seeing int medics with weapons that are not related to their mastery is tickling and against the balance.

I already posted this comment on another thread regarding this but I think it might give some insight here aswell: 

Sure, Fan and Pipe are essential when it comes to Hidden Masteries but I think many are missing the point when there's talk of a Leaf exclusive weapon. The issue doesn't lie in Leaf being in need of a village-only weapon (although it would be nice to have Chakra Blades, and I believe @Spooks already made a post regarding this topic with some Leaf villagers doing pixel art for the Blades), but rather that Fan and Pipe are available to all in their respective villages and the very fact that they can be used by everyone does not only break RP (e.g. how can ninja who didn't master Wind / Water release wield a fan or use a pipe?) but also puts Leaf shinobi at a disadvantage when fighting Sand or Mist (e.g. cancel ability of Fans / Mist elementals relying on bubble-snare combos) which makes fighting these villages frustrating to say the least due to the abundance of Fan / Pipe users. 
If one were to even the field, they'd have to (and this has been stated and ignored countless times before) lock Fan and Pipe to their Hidden Masteries. This would not only balance PvP but also restore RP as it would decrease the number of people using hidden weapons without the proper chakra nature and prevent the abuse of Fan / Pipe perks in combat.

[Anna Primal]

this has been said a million times not to mastery lock but to make the 20 strenght weapons not snare and do knockback would fix a lot and would make the game better .