pls shift gf's power away from the unavoidable combo

[Rumaki]

GF IS NOT OKAY IN IM TIRED OF PEOPLE ACTING LIKE IT IS

  Here's what the main problem is 

To keep it short GF users have an unpredictable, undodgeable, unpunishable, unavoidable, 100%hit rate, flawless combo, the wet dream of all wind users.  

the very basic combo flicker + bottom palm + mountain crusher + kunai

most of the combo will hit even if you have sub


Now because you're left unable to move after the basic gf combo, people can unload whatever instant cast they have on you 
Fire

Water

This works with lightning, wind, medic , int wm and str wm 

Medic being the strongest combo with it because you can equip a sword and smack your opponent right after the combo just like this

There is no counter to this combo,  you can't see it coming and after it happened you cant do anything about what just happened to you. The best thing to do after getting flicker smacked like that is hoping your opponent ran out of chakra and  won't pull out a bone sword. 


There is nothing wrong with a mastery having a combo but one that is completely flawless is not okay but just nerfing it wont do the power gotta be shifted away either by slighly buffing gf's other jutsus or whatever just pls, for the love of God all ive been seeing today are gf flicker demons n i cant stand it anymore i cant sleep at night i have nightmares of yami flicker comboing me, pls rory.


 Here's my take on a powershift/mini rework to drive the mastery's power away rom using swords and the unavoidable flicker cheese.

1---- First of all Reduce the base damage on all GF jutsus significantly 
    buff Pressure point into -> When activated also increase you strength significantly  alongside with making your melees sale with strength.
This change is necessary into making pressure point useful to the class while preventing plays to just equip a sword that wasn't meant for their mastery while aslo have their's mastery's full damage output.

2--- As people already suggested in the comments, make mountain crusher a run cast and increase the range by 1 

3--- Reduce self stun on rotation to .5 so the user can take advantage of it

4--- make vaccum instant with .5sec selfstun or  instant knockback with .5sec selfstun 
   The selfstun is necessary so the combo dnt juts become flicker palm vaccum, we'd be back into square one Edited August 19, 2021 by Rumaki
Added mini reword suggestion

[Rumaki]

59 minutes ago, Flicker said:

Gentle Fist is fine. I do not know what mastery you are comparing it to but the staple thing about Gentle Fist is the Flicker combo it has. Without it, it would lose the burst identity that it has. 

Taijutsu has fast melees and easier to land jutsu, Weapon Mastery has weapons that can hit harder than any Gentle Fist jutsu. So why are people trying to nerf Gentle Fist so hard? It is a strong 1v1 mastery but that is what it is supposed to be. 

The changes that people suggest would make this mastery literally obsolete compared to Tai and WM. The only thing that makes GF stick out from other melee masteries is that it has burst and if you remove that burst the mastery will not be able to compete with other melee masteries. 

 

a class being played around burst in 1 v1 and skirmishes is nothing but normal  take intwm/med for example they play around flicker scalpel burst but it can easily miss or if u feel it coming u can side step it. Nadoes wind + int wm another burst reliant class, can easily miss n u can sub n side step it.

The reason why GF is not okay  and i said it in the post u cannot avoid the combo by any means and after blowing their combo they can use any broken WM sword that could hit harder than their jutsus so prevent pressure 


I thought it was obvious enough but its clear that gf wasn't even intended to be a burst class in the first place with things Pressure point and 16palms it seemed to be intended as a fighter mastery>> U have some dps with PP but not to compared to tai and wm, Vaccum as short range dmg dealing projectile cuz it cand easily hit multiple times, 16palms as a cc silence + chakra drain , rotation mostly to cancel but obviously has plenty other way it could b used

The problem came with the previous gf nerfs making the mastery completely  one sided by making the other jutsus underpowered and leaving the burst flicker cheese with all the power, GF is not okay because they dnt even use Pressure point and just replace it with a sword and beside palm and crusher the rest of their kit is barely viable, they are obviously being used but the whole kit gets carried by the flicker cheese

Now yami why would a burst mastery needs dps ? that's like fusing LOL assassins and adcs. A burst class cannot have dps or it becomes broken, isnt even a burst class anymore. GF users have dps choices from Pressure point all the way to kraken hammer. Close ur eyes and imagine a 150 int  wm/med flicker combo u for 500 dmg then pull out a bonesword to dps u to death.

Burst classes have no need for utility like Chakra drain, it would be bleed instead or just raw damage but u do have 16palms<
Gf is only being called a burst mastery rn cuz u can flicker cheese with 2 jutsus while the rest of their kit has nothing at all to do with burst .
gf's power should just be devided between  the kit so they can fight with every jutsus normally and make sure that nohing is unavoidable 

[Kronkaro]

I think Gf should be centered around the pressure point buff they get at lvl 10. Its crazy that when you see gfs in dzs they opt to use swords then their own buff designed for the mastery. The scaling of the buff should be increased and given some unique properties to it while the other Jutsus get nerfs. Mountain crusher shouldn't be instant and instead should have a run cast. all around the base damage of most the jutsus should be scaled back atleast.

[SaphV2]

switch mountain crusher with twin lion fist ez fix

[Slifer]

Twin lion fist would be cool af 

[Seifer]

As @Kronkaro said, Gf should be centered around Pressure Point. At it's simplest, GF should be about chakra draining enemies and causing internal organ rupters through precise strikes. GF's techniques have always been evolving stances and prolonging attacks. Sadly right now it is mostly a copy pasta of AGI taijutsu with no range.

Pressure point is useless as it stands. The damage it gives is not worthwhile at all. The cancel of the jutsu, or feint leaves a GF user with a timer that lasts longer than the battle. Most people do not bother with it and simply use a sword. The problem is, pressure point is the main link to GF's kit and I will tell you why. Pressure point is what allows a user to confidently chase the enemy, forcing them to not be able to spam a combo without moving.  This closing in range is what links the GF's combo. In short, Pressure point is so weak and useless that GF's do not have enough pressure to use their other abilities without flicker.

SO, fixing pressure point by removing the timer and adding chakra drain would be a quick fix to GF. HOWEVER, long term wise, MC/Palm should be changed to differentiate from AGI and help support chasing the enemy like a dash.

[Kanpeki]

Gentle Fist is fine. I do not know what mastery you are comparing it to but the staple thing about Gentle Fist is the Flicker combo it has. Without it, it would lose the burst identity that it has. 

Taijutsu has fast melees and easier to land jutsu, Weapon Mastery has weapons that can hit harder than any Gentle Fist jutsu. So why are people trying to nerf Gentle Fist so hard? It is a strong 1v1 mastery but that is what it is supposed to be. 

The changes that people suggest would make this mastery literally obsolete compared to Tai and WM. The only thing that makes GF stick out from other melee masteries is that it has burst and if you remove that burst the mastery will not be able to compete with other melee masteries. 

 

[Sushi]

Really nice post and not being only about berfing but even buffing some things, you dont see many of those, what I suggest plaYing with the basic combo cooldowns a little cuz the burst is fine, the problem is it comes back fairly quick imo otherwise I like the ideas you stated too :3 

[Gildarts]

• I been meaning to make a post on this but I'll say this.

 

• You call it GF COMBO like you're getting hit by the whole thing through your substitution jutsu when in fact you are not.

 

• People or combining two skills so fast that it looks that way but thats not the case.

 

• 1 of the jutsus called Palm Bottom is subbed with people using Mountain crusher right after + throwing a kunai or shooting a jutsu.
• Most times you only get hit by 1 or two jutsus depending on how they combine it with they're 2nd element.
• Also why are you just coming at gentle fist? Agility tai can breaking kick into Seismic after using flicker.
• If anything was changed with gentle fist and this particular combo would be to take away mountain crusher's ability to stun the opponent and replace the stun with a Silence that last as long as the current stun last.
• Gentle Fist damage is no higher than that of an person playing elements. At 90 strength my gentle fist moves do 80-95 which isn't bad at all.

[Kanpeki]

On 8/19/2021 at 3:09 PM, Rumaki said:

a class being played around burst in 1 v1 and skirmishes is nothing but normal  take intwm/med for example they play around flicker scalpel burst but it can easily miss or if u feel it coming u can side step it. Nadoes wind + int wm another burst reliant class, can easily miss n u can sub n side step it.

The reason why GF is not okay  and i said it in the post u cannot avoid the combo by any means and after blowing their combo they can use any broken WM sword that could hit harder than their jutsus so prevent pressure 


I thought it was obvious enough but its clear that gf wasn't even intended to be a burst class in the first place with things Pressure point and 16palms it seemed to be intended as a fighter mastery>> U have some dps with PP but not to compared to tai and wm, Vaccum as short range dmg dealing projectile cuz it cand easily hit multiple times, 16palms as a cc silence + chakra drain , rotation mostly to cancel but obviously has plenty other way it could b used

The problem came with the previous gf nerfs making the mastery completely  one sided by making the other jutsus underpowered and leaving the burst flicker cheese with all the power, GF is not okay because they dnt even use Pressure point and just replace it with a sword and beside palm and crusher the rest of their kit is barely viable, they are obviously being used but the whole kit gets carried by the flicker cheese

Now yami why would a burst mastery needs dps ? that's like fusing LOL assassins and adcs. A burst class cannot have dps or it becomes broken, isnt even a burst class anymore. GF users have dps choices from Pressure point all the way to kraken hammer. Close ur eyes and imagine a 150 int  wm/med flicker combo u for 500 dmg then pull out a bonesword to dps u to death.

Burst classes have no need for utility like Chakra drain, it would be bleed instead or just raw damage but u do have 16palms<
Gf is only being called a burst mastery rn cuz u can flicker cheese with 2 jutsus while the rest of their kit has nothing at all to do with burst .
gf's power should just be devided between  the kit so they can fight with every jutsus normally and make sure that nohing is unavoidable 

You can avoid the combo, it doesn't hit 100% of the time. You can also sub a portion of the damage which esentially almost halves the damage output.

You obviously do not know what you are talking about. Gentle Fist was always meant to be a burst mastery. Taijutsu has fast melees, faster casting jutsu and lower cooldowns so it has lower scaling but consistently high DPS. Gentle Fist has smaller ranges, higher cooldowns, more selfstuns (not to mention only one sub), so for that reason Gentle Fist has higher scaling and better burst damage.

Another reason why Gentle Fist has higher scaling is due to the fact that the mastery does not use a weapon unlike Taijutsu and Weapon Mastery.
While one can argue that Gentle Fist can use a sword to melee with, the sword itself does not boost your jutsu damage in any way and you rely on swaping the weapon on and off in between using your Gentle Fist jutsu.

I don't know what game you are playing if you think Gentle Fist's kit has nothing to do with burst. Your Flicker combo bursts, your 16 Palm combo bursts and your Vacuum Palm can burst depending on how many of them the enemy runs into.

[Rumaki]

33 minutes ago, JunPachi said:

• You call it GF COMBO like you're getting hit by the whole thing through your substitution jutsu when in fact you are not.

 

• People or combining two skills so fast that it looks that way but thats not the case.

 

• 1 of the jutsus called Palm Bottom is subbed with people using Mountain crusher right after + throwing a kunai or shooting a jutsu.

That's the thing,  crusher ALWAYS comes out right after bottom palm 
fighting a gf med for example
If u do sub palm ull get hit by crusher -> scalpel -> kunai -> bonesword auto   so did you really sub the combo? how do i avoid that?
even if its a pure gf you will still get near 200 dmg from crusher + kunai, theres no way to avoid it you are guaranteed to hit ur jutus.

 

43 minutes ago, JunPachi said:

• Also why are you just coming at gentle fist? Agility tai can breaking kick into Seismic after using flicker.
•  

Yes but this combo has very low dmg compared to gf's combo
                                    -  tai users actualy have to move 1 tile after flicker breaking kick so seismic can connect they cannot do it instantly like GF u can occasionally sub or even hit them in that time
                                    - seismic has a self stun so u cannot combo it with other stuff for free dmg like gf's mountain crusher.

 

 

50 minutes ago, JunPachi said:

• Gentle Fist damage is no higher than that of an person playing elements. At 90 strength my gentle fist moves do 80-95 which isn't bad at all.

now imagine an element with bonesword or crystal sword.

[Gildarts]

a tool + mountain crusher. u can get that same dmg as an element with a shuriken or a chakra med with a bubble pipe. anyone can do 200 damage easy.

MC stun just neeeds to be removed and made a .5 silence instead.

MC and 16 palms is gf strongest jutsus.

16 Palms isn't easy to land at all either but it is worth while when landed. Not only that it self stuns.

Palm bottom not as strong. it does like 75-80 at 90 str which isnt broken since its range is that of a melee range

MC is the only very strong gf jutsu and even then i wouldn't lower it's damage but instead remove its stunning capability

[Balcoin]

Butch Queens bout to defend the most broken mastery this game has 

[Seifer]

On 8/21/2021 at 12:14 PM, Wanheda said:

Butch Queens bout to defend the most broken mastery this game has 

It is really not broken when compared to stuff that every other kit has. GF's combo does a little over 300 dmg. Poison scalpel for the longest time was doing 1k+ dmg combos. I do not think GF is OP, but I do not think the kit is very likeable nor ideal to everyone's image of what GF should be. That's why I always propose a rework instead of a nerf/buff.