Are there any of you that actually WANT a Pay-to-win model? Come on, you're anonymous.

[Steezoom]

No one knows who you are. I know some of you actually want this. I wanna hear you defend your position. Personally, I think it's a cheap way to play and it robs you of a natural experience. Meanwhile, years later the money was really a waste because it was just leisure time and you left the game years ago. The money was probably better spent elsewhere. Sure if everyone is pay-to-win and no one has to earn it without money on an equal playing field then fine. But when you have P2W people playing alongside people who don't, it's not fair.

Come on though. Speak up. I want to hear a spirited response. Stand up for yourself. I'm sure there are a lot of constructive discussions we can have. I think this is good for clearing up our views on this matter. Also, those of you who do not agree with pay to win, I would like you to voice your opinion on the matter.

Just look at this photo a second. Does it not shock you this actually now exists in our culture. People want that little sense of victory so bad that they are willing to cheat their way to get it. Used to, that obviously nullified your victory because it takes you earning it to get the victory. Odd huh?

[Arashi Himitsu]

1 minute ago, Steezo said:

Just look at this photo a second

Show me the photo and I'll look ;p

 

[Prince Nik]

They worry about my mental health yet make posts like this. 


Honestly bro?

If you ain't got no money take your broke ass home. I'll pay to fuck I'll pay to play I'll pay to eat I'll pay to sleep. Called life. 

[Hageshi]

[Anna Primal]

2 hours ago, Steezo said:

No one knows who you are. I know some of you actually want this. I wanna hear you defend your position. Personally, I think it's a cheap way to play and it robs you of a natural experience. Meanwhile, years later the money was really a waste because it was just leisure time and you left the game years ago. The money was probably better spent elsewhere. Sure if everyone is pay-to-win and no one has to earn it without money on an equal playing field then fine. But when you have P2W people playing alongside people who don't, it's not fair.

Come on though. Speak up. I want to hear a spirited response. Stand up for yourself. I'm sure there are a lot of constructive discussions we can have. I think this is good for clearing up our views on this matter. Also, those of you who do not agree with pay to win, I would like you to voice your opinion on the matter.

Just look at this photo a second. Does it not shock you this actually now exists in our culture. People want that little sense of victory so bad that they are willing to cheat their way to get it. Used to, that obviously nullified your victory because it takes you earning it to get the victory. Odd huh?

the game is in many ways pay to play for some ppl since the pingzapper and exitlag company benefit  so much form nin  but rory doesnt so it a weird verions of pay to play .

[Ueda]

On 6/28/2021 at 7:20 AM, ana primal said:

the game is in many ways pay to play for some ppl since the pingzapper and exitlag company benefit  so much form nin  but rory doesnt so it a weird verions of pay to play .

I have to say this is a really bad hot take. The only reason Pingzapper and ExitLag improve ping at all is because your service provider is cheaping on on network routes to providers in other countries. You can learn about how tunnel programs work on on ExitLag's own video.

By that definition every game is P2W because you get a better experience if you don't have a bad internet provider. Even single player game is P2W because you get more FPS and can predict the enemy movement better if you buy a better computer, or get a better monitor with less input lag.

[Anna Primal]

3 hours ago, Ueda said:

I have to say this is a really bad hot take. The only reason Pingzapper and ExitLag improve ping at all is because your service provider is cheaping on on network routes to providers in other countries. You can learn about how tunnel programs work on on ExitLag's own video.

By that definition every game is P2W because you get a better experience if you don't have a bad internet provider. Even single player game is P2W because you get more FPS and can predict the enemy movement better if you buy a better computer, or get a better monitor with less input lag.

my connection is bad when it na server but i am eu overall i play wow and swtor on uk and german server where the lag is almost non existend. the issue with nin is the gameplay with my ping and delay get only  much better when playing nin with exitlag so i cant say the other way around.

[Ueda]

4 hours ago, ana primal said:

my connection is bad when it na server but i am eu overall i play wow and swtor on uk and german server where the lag is almost non existend. the issue with nin is the gameplay with my ping and delay get only  much better when playing nin with exitlag so i cant say the other way around.

That's nothing to do with being P2W.
You're complaining about the location of our server. I'm terribly sorry I can't afford to move everyone who wants to play Nin Online to the Americas to experience good ping. But the idea that this somehow means that this game that has literally zero ways you can officially and legally pay to gain gameplay benefits that a non-paying player gets is garbage.

Once again, if Pingzapper or ExitLag helps. It just means your Internet Service Provider is cheaping out on their contracts for cable routes to other countries.

If it doesn't help but lag is still an issue, that's just due to the server location, and we can't bypass the laws of physics to beat theoretical limits on how fast information can travel through cables under the sea.

[Ethan Winters]

2 hours ago, Ueda said:

That's nothing to do with being P2W.
You're complaining about the location of our server. I'm terribly sorry I can't afford to move everyone who wants to play Nin Online to the Americas to experience good ping. But the idea that this somehow means that this game that has literally zero ways you can officially and legally pay to gain gameplay benefits that a non-paying player gets is garbage.

Once again, if Pingzapper or ExitLag helps. It just means your Internet Service Provider is cheaping out on their contracts for cable routes to other countries.

If it doesn't help but lag is still an issue, that's just due to the server location, and we can't bypass the laws of physics to beat theoretical limits on how fast information can travel through cables under the sea.

i have a concern for ryo in this game. basically, i think this game is kind of... p2w in this sense, i dont mean this rudely, im just saying. 
people agreed with me on this reluctantly on discord.

this game oddly has most items in the 1k - 20k ryo range, and then suddenly u have stuff like bone/adamantine/kraken/ rage bandit stuff thats well above 200k ryo.
and those items are indeed so strong that it makes a difference in the game easily, like easily easily
and the people that can freely spend $200 usd+ on this game tend to get those items easily than those who dont spend that much irl cash.
bcos the issue is that in this game, ryo is very difficult to get fast. Ive observed #trade chat on discord very hard and the biggest way people get ryo fast is just doing nin cred. Nin cred is way too prominent in this game and i just think thats not healthy
theres a meme in discord that most people "have never seen above 20k ryo in their inventory"

[Erox]

1 hour ago, Ethan Winters said:

i have a concern for ryo in this game. basically, i think this game is kind of... p2w in this sense, i dont mean this rudely, im just saying. 
people agreed with me on this reluctantly on discord.

this game oddly has most items in the 1k - 20k ryo range, and then suddenly u have stuff like bone/adamantine/kraken/ rage bandit stuff thats well above 200k ryo.
and those items are indeed so strong that it makes a difference in the game easily, like easily easily
and the people that can freely spend $200 usd+ on this game tend to get those items easily than those who dont spend that much irl cash.
bcos the issue is that in this game, ryo is very difficult to get fast. Ive observed #trade chat on discord very hard and the biggest way people get ryo fast is just doing nin cred. Nin cred is way too prominent in this game and i just think thats not healthy
theres a meme in discord that most people "have never seen above 20k ryo in their inventory"

"this game that has literally zero ways you can officially and legally pay to gain gameplay benefits that a non-paying player gets"

[Ethan Winters]

7 minutes ago, Erox said:

"this game that has literally zero ways you can officially and legally pay to gain gameplay benefits that a non-paying player gets"

ok but that doesnt explain or answer what i said. i read his message too
pay to win is a vague term now. it doesnt just mean pay to "win the game", think about it. what does win mean? get ahead in level? win more fights? have more ryo? obtain higher ranks? what does it mean to "win" nin online? 

my only point is that this game has more Nin cred buying than most games i seen, its too prominent in this game. a lot of people would rather spend a quick $15 which, even with lowest wage job, is only 1 hour of job, than to spend hours on hours or even days on nin to get 15k ryo. 
and with higher ryo, do u win more fights? tourneys? yes, bcos of strong stuff like bone sword or that adamant staff or any other strong fan item, or kraken in dz

 

[Erox]

Thats all you, thats not the game.

[Ethan Winters]

Just now, Erox said:

Thats all you, thats not the game.

hmm ok not bothering with you

[Erox]

Just now, Ethan Winters said:

hmm ok not bothering with you

Thank you, I'm just saying we have rules against that situation.

EI: If you wanna buy an item from another player with Ryo thats fine and all good youre free to do so.
But in this argument of P2W if youre trying to buy items from another player with irl currencies then thats a big nono.

[Valhalla]

Basically what hes saying is nin credit is allowed to sell cause it fills the games pockets and it could use the extra funds in current state  too speed up development and what not

[Ethan Winters]

15 minutes ago, Erox said:

Thank you, I'm just saying we have rules against that situation.

EI: If you wanna buy an item from another player with Ryo thats fine and all good youre free to do so.
But in this argument of P2W if youre trying to buy items from another player with irl currencies then thats a big nono.

this still doesnt answer my question.. did i mistype somewhere?

im saying nin is a bit of p2w bcos of how hard it is to get ryo, so people who spend more $$$ (in the form of nin cred, i never said straight up money)
tend to be stronger or CAN be stronger than those that dont bcos of ridiculous items like bone sword or adamantine staff

i never said irl money im saying nin cred. Nin cred seems to be the way people get ryo the fastest way in this game, which is unhealthy for the game bcos it means those that give more usd to rory (paying) end up with the expensive items, and expensive items in this game make a huge difference (aka, u win more)

an average player of nin has never seen above 20k ryo in their inventory in their lifetime, sory i dont have proof of this bcos i keep seeing it in game but i dont take screencap
 

[Ueda]

7 hours ago, Ethan Winters said:

i have a concern for ryo in this game. basically, i think this game is kind of... p2w in this sense, i dont mean this rudely, im just saying. 
people agreed with me on this reluctantly on discord.

this game oddly has most items in the 1k - 20k ryo range, and then suddenly u have stuff like bone/adamantine/kraken/ rage bandit stuff thats well above 200k ryo.
and those items are indeed so strong that it makes a difference in the game easily, like easily easily
and the people that can freely spend $200 usd+ on this game tend to get those items easily than those who dont spend that much irl cash.
bcos the issue is that in this game, ryo is very difficult to get fast. Ive observed #trade chat on discord very hard and the biggest way people get ryo fast is just doing nin cred. Nin cred is way too prominent in this game and i just think thats not healthy
theres a meme in discord that most people "have never seen above 20k ryo in their inventory"

You can't call a game P2W because people are cheating by buying things outside of the game illegally.
There's no real way we can prevent that, and we can't design the game to be easier so that nobody feels the urge to cheat. There'll always be cheaters.

Your suggestion is the only way to make the game not P2W is to not have anything in the game that has any inherent value, so that nobody is incentivized to get any item and that everything should be easily obtained so that nobody will find real world monetary value in items in the game. That's not a solution, that's the destruction of any form of exclusivity, and value in anything in the game so that nobody wants to cheat because nothing is worth anything and everything is a waste of time anyway.

ie. That's like saying The Witcher 3, or any single player story game is P2W because people can pay someone to send them the completed game save file.

[Ueda]

I'm just going to close this thread.
This has just become a way for people to complain and blame the dev team about things out of our control that people don't like about human nature and laws of physics.

If you don't like your ISPs cheaping out on sea cable routes, complain to them.
If you don't like players cheating, actively discourage, call out and not participate in cheating activities outside of the game.