buff Shirokata needs a buff, here's why.

[Hao]

TL;DR:
Shirokata is very underwhelming for its level/STR requirement, and its unique effect is actually a nerf, read below why.
This is coming from someone who has all the swords besides bone/blood, and I've tried each out for several days.

1.  Shirokata is the worst compared to its sister swords.
Dark Bandit Blade is literally same STR req and level req as Shirokata, but strictly better damage. 

Even Maramusa is better to use than Shirokata. Muramasa requires 10 less levels, and 20 less STR. And it actually gives the user +1 to STR.
Muramasa's requirements are wayyy lower than Shirokata's, and its base damage is only lower than Shirokata's by... 3. 
By requiring 20 less STR, you pave way for more diverse builds with Maramusa. Shirokata doesn't live up to the 100 STR req.

I don't think I need to prove how good Religious Katana is. The base damage is lower than the aforementioned 3 swords, but the attack speed more than makes up for it. So much so, that if 2 people held down Z against each other, Religious wielder would beat the Shirokata/Bandit/Muramasa wielder easily.

It's gotten to the point where you just buy and keep Religious for all your levels, until your level/STR is high enough for Bone Sword/Blood Katana later on. The intermediate swords are bad, and Shirokata is the worst between them.

Don't like words, and want raw numbers?
(The higher the better)

Damage of the sword per STR required:
Religious Katana:	0.37
Muramasa:	0.375
Shirokata:	0.33 (lowest)
Bandit blade:	0.35
Crystal Sword:	0.35
Blood Katana:	0.41

2.  Its unique effect is negligible.
The Wiki says 12% chakra per 40 seconds. Okay... 40 seconds is a long time but okay, it's at least something I guess.
Except it only actually regens flat 10 chakra, not 12%. If it was 12% regen, and you had 300 chakra, you'd regen 36 chakra. A big difference.
Even if it was 12%, 40 seconds is way too long for frequency. It should be 4% chakra per 10 seconds, so it's more vivid and applicable. 

3.  It's bugged; making the unique effect actually a nerf.
3.1   First bug, the passive Chakra Regen, every now and then, removes itself for no reason. Unequiping and re-equiping Shirokata enables the regen again, but it shouldn't turn off ever. No one wants to not have chakra regen. Just keep it on forever.

3.2   Second bug, when the regen happens, there's a pop-up text +10 that appears above your character when you get the chakra. 
Except... that pop up also weirdly appears when you're already full chakra, when it shouldn't. This exposes you if you're hiding behind a tree preparing an ambush, because the pop up appears over trees, objects, everything, giving away your position. 
The only reason I even walk around with this sword is because I like the visuals of it.

4.  Suggestions on how to buff it.
I always believe that balancing is about keeping in mind item identity over item standardization. (I'll prolly make a post about this later).
Buffing Shirokata's damage or attack speed is not it, and would just make it like other swords. (Although, I do think a slight buff to attack speed is necessary)

Each sword has its own identity, and Shirokata's, I guess, is the Chakra Regen passive. 
My suggestion is to do the following:

- To make the regen 4% chakra every 10 seconds. That'd be 10 chakra if you had 250 total chakra (which is what WM users generally go).
- To lower the STR req. STR req should be 85 at most. Currently, you're telling me this sword requires 100 STR, when, just with 10 more STR, you arrive at Bone/Blood, which are miles better? If Shirokata's damage is similar to Muramasa (33 vs 30), the STR req should be similar to Muramasa's (80), not 100. If you don't want to reduce its STR req, then buff its damage to match that of Blood Katana/Kyuketsuki (Crystal).



If you like this post, do not give it reacts. Just upvote the post itself, so Rory can see.

[Elevenswords]

Great post. Buffing the chakra regen is for sure the way to go but i dont think the buff you suggest is enough. chakra isnt even an issue on wms so i think the weapon actually needs either dmg buff or an atk speed buff along with the chakra regen. +1 great post

 

[Accelerator]

Honestly if you're using an item for the aesthetic that's on you not every weapon needs to be meta.

Cheers

[Hao]

18 minutes ago, Gilgamesh said:

Honestly if you're using an item for the aesthetic that's on you not every weapon needs to be meta.

Cheers

I don't understand what your comment achieves. 
The part where I mentioned the aesthetic is the meme, the first 3 points are the focus of this post, and you said nothing about them.

[Elevenswords]

4 minutes ago, Gilgamesh said:

Honestly if you're using an item for the aesthetic that's on you not every weapon needs to be meta.

Cheers

i mean even tho not every weapon needs to be meta what the point of even having the weapon in the game if its just used for looks and its not even usable in any real way when you compare it to all the "meta" swords.

I would say its actually a useless item thats only used as a meme.
Its literally powercreeped to infinity

[Hao]

35 minutes ago, Elevenswords said:

i mean even tho not every weapon needs to be meta what the point of even having the weapon in the game if its just used for looks and its not even usable in any real way when you compare it to all the "meta" swords.

I would say its actually a useless item thats only used as a meme.
Its literally powercreeped to infinity

Funny thing is, Shirokata is not even in the game for its looks.

Only I like the looks. Most people tell me they like Kyuketsuki's looks, or Muramasa's looks. 
Shirokata is literally a black stick behind your back. 

[Arima OLD]

38 minutes ago, Gilgamesh said:

Honestly if you're using an item for the aesthetic that's on you not every weapon needs to be meta.

Cheers

Bro I think you have the potential to become new Steezo, you talking nonsense asf.

[Arima OLD]

33 minutes ago, Elevenswords said:

i mean even tho not every weapon needs to be meta what the point of even having the weapon in the game if its just used for looks and its not even usable in any real way when you compare it to all the "meta" swords.

I would say its actually a useless item thats only used as a meme.
Its literally powercreeped to infinity

I agree, attack speed buff is the way to go.

[Elegy]

Honestly, I have a lot of respect for you as a player after seeing this post. It's so in depth, so well thought out and you go into great detail to backup your arguments with facts and data with comparisons for perspective

My only suggestion is to reduce the mentioned chakra regen you are suggesting from 10 to 5 points if it ticks every 10 seconds, it would make wm's be able to pressure a little to well otherwise.

You have my support !!

[Hao]

35 minutes ago, Insidious said:

Honestly, I have a lot of respect for you as a player after seeing this post. It's so in depth, so well thought out and you go into great detail to backup your arguments with facts and data with comparisons for perspective

My only suggestion is to reduce the mentioned chakra regen you are suggesting from 10 to 5 points if it ticks every 10 seconds, it would make wm's be able to pressure a little to well otherwise.

You have my support !!

That's fair. Being able to pressure constantly is a factor not often discussed. 

Okay, so taking 250 total chakra as the standard for WM users,
Instead of 4% per 10 seconds (10 chakra per 10 seconds), we can do 2% per 10 seconds (5 chakra per 10 seconds), as you suggest.
(Note that, this means it'll take 8 minutes 20 seconds to get full chakra from 0).

If we convert your idea into Rory's style of per-40-seconds, then that's 20 chakra per 40 seconds, which is just 10 more than what it currently is.

So... it's weird perspective-wise. When you consider the regen after 40 seconds, 20 chakra seems too little.
But when you decrease the frequency of tick but keep the rate the same, then 5 chakra per 10 seconds seems decent.

I'm genuinely fine with a balance between 5-10 chakra every 10 seconds, as long as the frequency IS per-10 seconds. The 40 second thing is a problem.

 

[Accelerator]

10 hours ago, Elevenswords said:

i mean even tho not every weapon needs to be meta what the point of even having the weapon in the game if its just used for looks and its not even usable in any real way when you compare it to all the "meta" swords.

I would say its actually a useless item thats only used as a meme.
Its literally powercreeped to infinity

 

10 hours ago, Hao said:

I don't understand what your comment achieves. 
The part where I mentioned the aesthetic is the meme, the first 3 points are the focus of this post, and you said nothing about them.

When I used to play WM I used the shirokata as well because I found it aesthetically pleasing.

This was back when the shirokata was worth around 40k because it wasn't a relatively common drop from Land of Iron.

It was already a lot worse than the Bone sword and Blood katana.

That being said,

With shirokata being a mid tier weapon with relatively high stat requirements. It's in a sort of no-zone where even if you did lower the requirements there's already so many weapons that you can alternatively use.

I know it took a long time for the Muramasa sword to get reworked and before that happened Rory had stated that he wouldn't balance it until it made sense to do so.

 

I suppose my point is, 

If you're using a weapon for It's looks that's perfectly fine. But don't push it on Rory to make it more viable any sooner than he's ready to work on balance changes.

Since lately he's been working on things that are a lot more important to the game than balancing a mid tier sword.

(Reworking the log in system+the new client with Wolf)

[Hao]

6 hours ago, Gilgamesh said:

 

When I used to play WM I used the shirokata as well because I found it aesthetically pleasing.

This was back when the shirokata was worth around 40k because it wasn't a relatively common drop from Land of Iron.

It was already a lot worse than the Bone sword and Blood katana.

That being said,

With shirokata being a mid tier weapon with relatively high stat requirements. It's in a sort of no-zone where even if you did lower the requirements there's already so many weapons that you can alternatively use.

I know it took a long time for the Muramasa sword to get reworked and before that happened Rory had stated that he wouldn't balance it until it made sense to do so.

 

I suppose my point is, 

If you're using a weapon for It's looks that's perfectly fine. But don't push it on Rory to make it more viable any sooner than he's ready to work on balance changes.

Since lately he's been working on things that are a lot more important to the game than balancing a mid tier sword.

(Reworking the log in system+the new client with 

You're still not grasping what you want to say.

When or why you played Shirokata is irrelevant. Just like how you mentioning my liking to it is irrelevant. If I were to remove that 1 sentence from my post, your comments should still make sense but they wouldn't, cause you're fixated on the idea that I'm buffing Shirokata simply because I like it? That's incorrect. Read the 3 major points. This is the second time in a row you've commented about something irrelevant and not what the post is saying.

Secondly, Shirokata is not just a mid-tier weapon with high requirements. It's the worst of the mid-tier weapons and with stat requirements of the top 3 highest damaging swords (excluding 7sm). That 100% warrants a change.

Lastly, you're saying my suggestion is bad simply because it's not important right now? I'm not claiming it's of urgent importance, though?
Do you go to other suggestions and say "your idea is poor simply because it's not important rn"? It's interesting cause yesterday, there was a post asking "what updates would you like seeing?" asked by Itachi and Jutsu/Item Balancing was #1 most wanted. 

No one is claiming this is more important than the client rework. 
When a suggestion is posted on the forum, it's not to discuss:

When is it important to have that change.

But rather:

If that change is indeed necessary.

When you make a suggestion post in the forums, it's implied that the suggestion will be added whenever Rory sees fit, but our job is only to discuss if it's good or bad. Not the order of importance. 

You still haven't said anything substantial. It quite frankly feels like you're commenting for the sake of getting forum points when you haven't established an opinion yet.

[Accelerator]

45 minutes ago, Hao said:

You still haven't said anything substantial. It quite frankly feels like you're commenting for the sake of getting forum points when you haven't established an opinion yet.

Just an fyi forum "points" are from positive reactions, post counts do nothing.

[Hao]

5 minutes ago, Gilgamesh said:

Just an fyi forum "points" are from positive reactions, post counts do nothing.

Well you can only hope to get positive reactions if you post, right?

[Seifer]

Since "Sasuke" style is a hybrid build and Shirokata is his sword, the sword should have its strength requirement reduced.

That makes the most sense, making it viable to more players without making it over powered.

Btw, the buff turns off when you feint/die.

[Hao]

59 minutes ago, Seifer said:

Since "Sasuke" style is a hybrid build and Shirokata is his sword, the sword should have its strength requirement reduced.

That makes the most sense, making it viable to more players without making it over powered.

Btw, the buff turns off when you feint/die.

Agreed, cause right now it's not good enough for a pure WM, but not flexible enough for a hybrid build (WM+ele). 

While the STR req reduction should be good, the chakra regen passive also needs to be tuned up. Just reducing reqs make it another clone of Mura or Bandit Blade. Its chakra regen thing makes it unique and gives it its identity.

[SaphV2]

Support I agree these weapons should get reworked. 3 of the level STR are better then the 100 STR weapon by far

[Antar]

I am not sure if the Shirokata will get buff or not but good job trying to explain your points rather than just saying buff it.

[Inara]

Shirokata need 80 str and velocity religius and recupérate 3 chakra

[Clayman]

Shirokata doesn't need a buff, it is a level 40 "Rare" sword. It gives up some damage in order to give chakra regen and a sword of that level shouldn't be regening too much. Neither should it's damage be too high when it has that effect. 

Look at Bandit Blade which is the same STR requirement as the Shirokata. It only has 2 extra base damage which is practically negligible and I am pretty sure it is a tiny bit slower than the Shirokata. All that while being of the "Unique" rarity. 

If you ask me if there is any sword which could use a slight buff it is the Bandit Blade as it has higher rarity than the Shirokata and is the only sword in the game which has the "Unique" rarity while there is nothing really unique about it. You are better off using the Shirokata for the chakra regen, most people go for the Bandit Blade just cause it looks cooler. 

[Hao]

19 hours ago, Yamikami said:

Shirokata doesn't need a buff, it is a level 40 "Rare" sword. It gives up some damage in order to give chakra regen and a sword of that level shouldn't be regening too much. Neither should it's damage be too high when it has that effect. 

Look at Bandit Blade which is the same STR requirement as the Shirokata. It only has 2 extra base damage which is practically negligible and I am pretty sure it is a tiny bit slower than the Shirokata. All that while being of the "Unique" rarity. 

If you ask me if there is any sword which could use a slight buff it is the Bandit Blade as it has higher rarity than the Shirokata and is the only sword in the game which has the "Unique" rarity while there is nothing really unique about it. You are better off using the Shirokata for the chakra regen, most people go for the Bandit Blade just cause it looks cooler. 

Judging swords by their rarity? Weird take. So a sword can be poorly designed but have a poor rarity so it's okay? Weird, cause you'd never know Shiro's rarity is less than Bandit's or Religious's when it costs either the same or more than them to buy. 

Also, you're acting like the chakra regen passive is not negligible? You regen 10 chakra every 40 seconds. 
If you ever wanted to afk with no chakra, it'd take 17 minutes to get full chakra, and that's if you only had 250 chakra. Not to mention it's a nerf to your tactics when you're full chakra. If this sword is to have low damage in exchange for this passive, then make it a worthwhile passive. 

Bandit blade isn't a much better sword, and also deserves a slight buff, but Shirokata is in a worse state than Bandit. The 2 damage is more beneficial than the chakra regen.
For proper balance, bandit blade could receive 1-2 extra base damage and Shiro's passive could be made reasonable.