Crystal Fan is too powerful

[Lumy]

I think many knows by now how Crystal fan is.

As a fan user, and a crystal fan holder, the pvp aspect is not fun for me anymore, it is way too strong. Even though it is beatable if my opponent is staying distant the whole fight, I have many gap closers to help me like sub and flicker. 

A weapon should not be able to have a stun and have a three tile projectile. Instant stun + three tile is overtuned.

I suggest :

1 tile, 8-9 tile range, higher base damage no stun and piercing effect.

1 tile, 8 tile range, 20 base damage, stun and no piercing effect.

Keep the effects has they are with much less base damage (10 base damage) but 20 chakra drained every melee.

Idk whatever, you guys can suggest anything really but the weapon needs to be nerfed.

I feel like the weapon can still be strong without it being overtuned.

[Ainz Ooal Gown]

:pensive: Preach

[Black Rain]

100% agree. 

Stun is one of the strongest mechanics in the game as there is no way at all to break out of it (unlike snare which can be flickered or subbed).

Giving stun to an AUTO attack with no chakra cost, on a 3 tile projectile is just...... way too overtuned 

 

[Souei]

Remove stun = profit? Don't see any other change need to be done for it.

1 tile is not optimal for everyone, it is good to see a 3 tile projectile for other fan users who are not running around with 10 ping.

[Anna Primal]

22 minutes ago, Lumy said:

I think many knows by now how Crystal fan is.

As a fan user, and a crystal fan holder, the pvp aspect is not fun for me anymore, it is way too strong. Even though it is beatable if my opponent is staying distant the whole fight, I have many gap closers to help me like sub and flicker. 

A weapon should not be able to have a stun and have a three tile projectile. Instant stun + three tile is overtuned.

I suggest :

1 tile, 8-9 tile range, higher base damage no stun and piercing effect.

1 tile, 8 tile range, 20 base damage, stun and no piercing effect.

Keep the effects has they are with much less base damage (10 base damage) but 20 chakra drained every melee.

Idk whatever, you guys can suggest anything really but the weapon needs to be nerfed.

I feel like the weapon can still be strong without it being overtuned.

no f that, the stun should stay at least or the knockback the fan is supost to be better then the blue fan and your suggest make it worst leave one of it the stun or the drilling air bullet attack .

[Lumy]

20 minutes ago, Souei said:

Remove stun = profit? Don't see any other change need to be done for it.

1 tile is not optimal for everyone, it is good to see a 3 tile projectile for other fan users who are not running around with 10 ping.

I dont mind any changes, it stilk can be stronger than the blue fan without being overtuned

For exemple you can take off the stun and keep the piercing effect to get that good use in group fights

[Souei]

That is what I am saying. Just remove the stun, the rest is ok.

[Anna Primal]

29 minutes ago, Souei said:

That is what I am saying. Just remove the stun, the rest is ok.

agree

[ForestEdge]

Just add a button where you can have the hits being 1 tile wide with no chakra cost that if you press you'll get the 3 tiles wide mode but with 5-10 chk cost each hit.

[Enka]

1 hour ago, ForestEdge said:

Just add a button where you can have the hits being 1 tile wide with no chakra cost that if you press you'll get the 3 tiles wide mode but with 5-10 chk cost each hit.

No triple hit, please x.x

[Tetsuya]

Just remove stun and it's ok. Crystal fan need to stay better than Blue Fan. 1 tiles large with lower range would make it worst than blue fan.

[Lumy]

It got reduced to 4 tiles and stuns for 0.5sec, which makes it not that bad and beatable but I’d rather have it 6 tiles with no stun and knockback, looks more balanced to me. I don’t think a weapon should stun

[SDZ]

Before I say anything let me just be clear that I definitely believe this should be stronger than blue fan.

Agree in general, weapons shouldn't stun but my issue is also that it is 3 tiles wide. Crystal fan and red fan are both 3 tiles wide on auto which I think is the main problem. Auto attacks in general are homing (via target system) and giving an auto attack with a relatively low cooldown and cancel ability on a 3 tile wide marker just makes the game so much easier to play. You dont need to manage cooldowns or save sub for skills like chidori, all you do is walk up and sloppily aim your 3 tile stunning auto now which just leads to easier and less skillful gameplay.

[Black Rain]

We've done some test fights with the crystal and blood iron fan in spars

These included 1v1, 2v2 and 3v3

From this, the fan basically fights like the Nuibari 7sm sword (which is an org exclusive item that's very strong) but way better, since it's a stun and the damage is higher. The projectiles also travel fast as hell but instead of cancelling with a snare, it's a whole stun. 

This is too strong of a weapon that comes with very little drawback to use.

 

[SDZ]

Ok so after sparring this weapon with a competent user (Lumy himself) I can confidently say this weapon is just ridiculous in terms of balance. It is very strong 1v1 but just begins to scale harder and harder the larger the group. It offers ridiculous zone control on a weapon auto and gives nuibari level power to the user. Gone are the days where you would have to manage cooldowns and skilfully time your cancels. I can no longer cast any high cast skills simply due to the ease of access of cancels this weapon offers. 

I think the main problem is that the auto attack is 3 tile. It is not that it stuns (because fan also knocks back which is similar-ish) but the fact that this weapon gives a very low cooldown, reliable CANCEL on demand is what makes this weapon overpowered and very unfun to play against. 

Suggestions: 
Remove 3 tile on auto attack, please. If you increase the cooldown between autos it needs to be either ridiculously high or it wont be effective enough as a nerf. Instead, maybe just make the cd of the auto lower and keep the stun (although I do think stuns should be on only the hardest to land jutsus as they were previously before these weapons were released). 

Add cast time to auto. I am personally against this option because it would just feel clunky and increase the discrepancy between high and low ping players.

Tl;dr please remove 3 tile auto from crystal fan, it is basically nuibari with a stun instead of a snare with 3 hit capability

 

[Black Rain]

24 minutes ago, SDZ said:

Tl;dr please remove 3 tile auto from crystal fan, it is basically nuibari with a stun instead of a snare with 3 hit capability

 

Considering nuibari is meant to be one of the most powerful weapons in the game and this fan can be accessed by any ninja (Sand only btw) (eventually once enough drop into the game, and they are dropping fast) it will not only cause the problems mentioned in this thread above but also allow players to access nuibari level powers without any real requirement.

I should also mention that there can only be 1 nuibari user at any given time. Meanwhile this fan can be scaled infinitely

[Black Rain]

I'm gonna bump this and keep bumping it so it gains traction. This weapon is frustrating as hell to play against and offers little counterplay for the kit it has.

[Lumy]

Please, do something! Black Rain will suffer from brain tumor 

[SDZ]

same, bumping yet again because as people get more used to this weapon they make the game more insufferable for the rest of us.

I cant cast anything in spars, and it only gets worse the more people you add (2v2s+)

[Vipe]

Crystal Fan is so powerful it even made Lumy good.

[SDZ]

Bumping this thread once again. Please if you could have another look at this weapon a lot of us would really appreciate it. The 3 tile auto is the problem; it is simply way too easy to cancel everything and that makes this weapon extremely irritating to play against @Ueda